I know there are a number of Muslim comedians both in Australia and around the world. Good luck to them because if ever a religion needed to poke a bit of fun at itself, Islam is it.
Any Muslim humorist has his or her work cut out. At a scriptural level there are numerous forbidding entries regarding laughter in the Koran and associated texts.
The Hadith says, “Do not laugh too much, for laughing too much deadens the heart.”
Potentially this means any Muslim who uses the laugh out loud acronym is looking at an apostasy charge and in grimmer corners of Islam like Saudi Arabia this has probably already happened.
The Hadith also puts the brakes on satire, too. “Woe to the one who speaks and tells lies in order to make the people laugh; woe to him, woe to him.”
Iran’s mullah, the Shi’ite cleric Ayatollah Khomeini said Islam was a joke free religion. There was not a laugh to be had according to Khomeini. One look at that grizzled visage and you just knew he hadn’t cracked it for a giggle in a very long time, if at all.
Full column here.
Jean Baptiste says:
February 18, 2017 at 4:28 pm
Further to my 11.13pm, 18/2 comment about your blustering ridicule and rejection directed at PLMO and all those who maintain and practice a religious spiritual belief system through, “priests, Imams, Gurus, etc, etc, etc ad nauseam” (your descriptors), one wonders if your intolerance is simply selectively pitched for reasons only you can either confirm or rebuff.
Or does you distain also include, for example, the religious beliefs and customs of our first nations people?
You may be aware JB that the Dreamtime is the Aboriginal understanding of the world and its creation, where a person’s spirit may return in human, animal or plant form after death. So an ancestral being may have the appearance of a plant or animal, but have done deeds similar to a human in the past. The Dreamtime is said to be the beginning of knowledge, from which came the laws of existence.
For survival these laws must be observed.
I suppose the question is, are your shallow, snide comments and criticism all encompassing for all religions and spiritual belief systems as you have indicated “ad nauseam”, or have you chosen that some will be taboo for your caustic commentary me old mate?
Tell ’em they’re dreamin!
OK I admit it, I did chuckle at that one Milton.
albeit after 2 days!! but thanks anyway, you’re a tough audience.
I laughed too Milton….you really are too clever at times
“for survival these laws must be observed”.
That’s a bit ambiguous.
If that means that anyone who does not obey the laws of the group is eliminated, I say that philosophy is going nowhere. No doubt, one assumes you project yourself into the paradigm as a controlling authoritarian leader, that would suit you down to the ground.
If you mean the people are imbued with the belief that they as a group cannot survive unless they observe rituals and rules and beliefs invented by and ordained by the leaders, that is possibly true to the degree the collective could be eliminated by a rival group.
Survival would depend on cooperation and cohesive action, that doesn’t make the belief system correct or permanently efficacious. it provides a rallying point. If people believed, and they will believe anything under threat , a flag, a giant tadpole in the sky or the promise of a rock in the back of a head would serve just as well as rallying point.
No I cant think of any that are taboo Carl, you must squirm with smug delight in the belief that I might be afraid to express an opinion on a particular culture or religion. Go ahead and incite me, that seems to be your long suit.
Did I mention Baptistes Spiritual Enterprises have a new product ” Renaissance Animism ” , which is a load of chicken sh*t, that’s just between you and me, but it is doing very well with the vacuous hipsters. Bossy old authoritarians are snapping up the franchises. I’ll do you a discount.
Actually JB the little that I know about Aboriginal folk lore makes a great deal of sense.
Their taboos made marrying close relatives impossible, ensured that there is no over hunting of one particular species, what plants are edible and a many others like this that do not spring to mind.
One does not inhabit a place for 30,000 years without getting a good grasp of what is necessary to survive and, with no written laws, taboos are one way of achieving the result.
They lived through many different climate changes and survived. They saw the sea levels rise by 60 meters after the last ice age. If nothing, they were very adaptable.
No doubt whatsoever. Not developing technology sufficient to destroy the planet for human habitation was a good thing, alas, at the end of the day I doubt Aboriginal people will survive much longer than the rest of us.
They might if the could regain their old skill set which has been lost.
The Inuit in Greenland at the start of the little ice age survived – the Norse did not.
What, you too! Pay attention.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-did-not-force-vikings-to-abandon-greenland-in-15th-century-a6761026.html
And what skill set was it that our indigenous people had that you think would enable them to survive? Breathing methane?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqIt93dDG1M
it’s curious really, as the christian churches become ever more liberal and tolerant their numbers drop off.
islam, on the other hand, is moving in the opposite direction, in most places becoming less tolerant and liberal, and yet its numbers are on the rise.
Not to offend anyone, but I think it’s a case of more and more people in the ‘Christian’ countries getting better educated – they can think for themselves. Logic is winning!
At my mother’s funeral a couple of years back I was talking to our (their) minister from the seventies and eighties. He was very despondent about the drop-off in church attendances. His son became a minister too and apparently was having immense difficulty in getting a congregation together in a former stronghold. He had a bit of a rant about Richard Dawkins, blaming him for the lack of bums on seats. i thought he was on the wrong track there, but I kept my mouth shut. if whatever God is all-powerful, he’s not going to let a mite like Dawkins beat him. The poor bloke passed away last year – I guess knows the answer now?
Probably a consequence of affluence Jack
You may want to have look at this article about two brothers who were normal teenagers/young adults, one took to Islam for the following reason. “was instantly attracted to the sense of structure and rules governing every aspect of his life.” See my comments below about the psychologically inadequate…
The other brother comments “In the film, after Mohammed’s birth Abdul hosts a celebratory barbecue, inviting members of the local Muslim community – and Lee. In an awkward scene in the back garden, Lee observes that all the other men, including Abdul, are eating with their hands. “It’s like you’re going backwards,” he says.”
Psychologically inadequacy, mixed with social backwardness – a potent and deadly brew.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/19/extremely-british-muslims-islam-convert-far-right-brother
One thing for sure JTI’s look at this religion highlights here and certainly on the other side just how insular and intolerant many Australians are. Always ready to judge others and their beliefs but seemingly unwilling to address their own hypocrisy and parochial provincial views and beliefs in unseen, unheard, unproven mysterious beings that they hold as being all powerful controlling forces.
Enough for gods sake Dismayed, stop talking about yourself. It is just so repetitive.
Usual weak effort from you lou. You like CotC seem to have no ability to read what is written and read into words what you need to see.
Mr Dismayed. Do you feel a bit uncomfortable when you read back that post to yourself? A little sycophantic perhaps? I’m sure Jack the Insider felt a little embarrassed.
Sycophantic to What? Get off the sauce before you comment.
You have too much form on this blog to take the high ground,
How true – in a corner and nowhere to run
I have never run from jugs in my life, never.
While being agnostic is often seen as sitting on the fence, I see it as plainly logical. Is there a God? We don’t know. We can’t know. And someone who insists on pushing their religious beliefs onto others and overt atheists like Dawkins I find equally irritating.
We also don’t know whether Allah or Mohamed had a sense of humour. Mohamed may have been a cracking joke writer, a “must see” at the Mecca fringe festival, but his work could well have been hidden by dour clerics. Hopefully someone can dig these out and get Salman Rushdie to translate them (sans fatwah).
I often wonder about the process of issuing a a fatwah. Is it some sort of committee decision? One particular devout Muslim named Mohamed calls himself Mo, marries a woman who already has a child and has a victory celebration using the “M” from YMCA made famous by gay icons, The Village People. Committee decision: fatwah gents? Nah, f..k it. Look at Mo Farah run, we’ll never catch him.
Your defence of agnosticism is often offered, but IMO it doesn’t hold water. I could understand that stance in relation to something elusive that could yet in principle be discovered. But our usual rational response to something we can’t know, even in principle, is to conclude it doesn’t exist. If I told you there was a unicorn behind you that was made in such a way that it would disappear every time you tried to turn and look at it, would you believe me? If not, why make an exception to this sensible policy for certain deities?
I think Penny has a more reasonable view. Religions as we know them might be applicable in your “unicorn” analogy, and no human who ever lived may have genuinely encountered a supernatural being at any level. That does not discount the possibility of entities of what would seem to us to have fantastic power and ability existing unseen to our limited minds.
Why they would want to invent the universe as we know it if they didn’t actually evolve in it is something to speculate upon. My limited mind cant imagine why they would have the slightest interest in us, and if they did exist, unless they or it was a bit perverse we would never be aware of them. But of course “deities” might also include the occasional simpleton too!
I rather like the idea that we are all Gods, overcoming the boredom of eternity by choosing lesser animals in which to experience life, quite deliberately leaving behind our primary abilities identities and memories.
We may have existed as conscious beings a million times before and just thought it might be quite the experience to slum it on a doomed and wacky planet in it’s dying gasps. Earth and its beings is a fairies fart in the big scheme of things. So is a trillion trillion years too.
If I carked it tomorrow I don’t think I’d be missing much in the great journey.
Give ’em heaps.
I may have mispronounced Perentie!
Here’s a story about a radio station in Syria that has mocked Islamic extremist music bans by playing animal noises instead, and ridiculed bans on female presenters by digitally altering their voices to sound like robots:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38912958
The station manager, Raed Fares, is a Muslim with a long history of poking fun at the Assad regime and IS as well. This has nearly cost him his life several times.
Just a reminder that human beings are all pretty much the same. From time to time some will seek to impose tyranny, and others will fight back with humour. This doesn’t follow religious or ethnic lines.
I’m not saying Muslims don’t have a sense of humour. I am saying Islamic scripture discourages humour and taken at its literal or fundamental expression, it is a joyless religion which expects its adherents to act in a way that runs contrary to basic human instinct.
True, Jack, and you made that clear at the start. My comment was directed at other commenters whom the cap might fit.
Ever since that day when I departed earth covered in battle glory, I have been sitting up there on my cloud quietly watching the world having a good go at destroying itself. If it’s not major wars, it’s emissions. Or both.
I even reached the stage where I had been promoted to being one of those twenty virgins. Which was great fun – until those ISIS blokes starting pitching up – they are not very nice guys at all – no sirree. Not of that for me.
So I said to God that they could go to hell , or I would be happy to go – which didn’t go down too well – because hell is serious competition for God up there. Much more interesting. You know, real people. Heaven’s population is declining faster than global warming is rising.
The other option was to be reincarnated as a Shield Maiden warrior back down here.
Not sure how I feel about that – but, being the warrior that I am, I said I would give it a go. If I don’t like it he has promised me I can go straight to hell.
The twenty or so virgins, why do they assume that they are nubile females? They could be Nuns who died in their 80’s or christian brothers….
Anyway what’s the big thing about virgins? My first wife was not at all keen the first couple of times. As Billy Connolly said, “surely a couple of cheery whores would be a better bet’?
Indeed UQ, how would you run the risk of death only to find out there is a collection of ugly souls (female or male) who couldn’t get a root in a brothel? If you’re dead, I can’t imagine you have a whole lot of negotiating ability with he/she who lives upstairs and metes out the goodies promised in the afterlife.
The whole concept relies on the appeal of having something no one else has had before. Now the Greeks had an answer for that, which many have followed. It’s all relative, if you know what I mean.
Billy’s comment I heard was, “72 virgins, it would be a fooking nightmare. Give me a couple of fire breathing whooores with flames shooting out their arse.”
https://youtu.be/8QMPFhPLwCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8SoVfTVLrk
moslem at heart…….now that is fun
RE: wraith says:
February 18, 2017 at 7:41 pm
Ms W,
I wasn’t aware that I had implied what you quote.
That you might not believe is your right and indeed far be it for me to’ arrogantly’ intrude.
But I just observe that many who profess as you do, in extremis change their mind.
Who are you or I to say who is right or wrong?
After all it is all a matter of Faith ………… or not!!
Shalom.
Ypwu know, plmo. the saddest bit about dying for me would be having to say goodbye to my children, if I was lucky enough to he given that opportunity, that is
Whilst I can truthfully say that I do not believe in anything hereafter, I would hope I am wrong – in the hope I would see them again.
That may account for the hedge-betting in extremis?
BALD:-”If we accept we did not exist before birth, why can’t we accept we will not exist after death?”
Ah conception and birth. One of the most brilliant Chemistry bits that ever evolved.
Right through history all societies had a problem.
Those at the top threw their weight around too much to the detriment of everybody.
Those at the bottom had such a hellish life that they probably thought about topping themselves all the time.
The smart ones needed support to learn, promulgate the historical learning that was essential to the survival of the tribe and generally live the good life that they thought they deserved. So they invented religion.
They realised that most of the tribe were bonkers – well, using current statistics, at least 50% – and Freud had not appeared on the scene to articulate the many forms of bonkerness.
So they invented religion. The tribe loved it. They had a God for everything. But it was too hard to control and the manna was being distributed too far and wide.
So they came up with mono-theism – this channelled all the gold into one place, there was one place of worship so the mob could be controlled more easily, it was much easier to put on the rituals for entertainment – it was all really sweet.
They invented the afterlife to keep the mob and the kings in their place. They invented the confessional so that they could control everybody. Once you know the dirt you have got control.
They did one other thing – they gave a philosophy to live by and hope to the down-trodden and a framework for the devout to live their lives by.
One thing that puts Christianity apart from the rest of the ME religions is “Forgive but do not forget” as opposed to one other that seems to be “Never Forgive, never forget and have vendettas that last over 800 years against your own kind”.
One last thing – it all came unstuck with the Welfare State and this has been usurped by ……. the Internet. The control has gone from the Church to Homeland Security and the guys at the top now have all the dirt to control everybody.
Full circle.
Great post JS
Northern Ireland?
Always exceptions to the rule TV.
It took awhile but it seems to have settled down now though.
Gee Jack, hope you survived today’s “weather event”. Sounds a bit hairy.
Hail stones as big as canned hams, Mac. No damage here but one of the loudest thunderclaps I’ve heard in a long time.
Allah is spamming you JtI. DDoS like…
Lucky you were not buried up to your neck in the kid’s sandpit JTI 🙂
We certainly copped it on the Northern Beaches Jack. Unfortunately I was at the golf club, so witnessed the carnage from the clubhouse. Boondies bigger than golf balls. About a dozen or so left their mark on my much loved car, now looking like it’s got a bad case of the pox damn it.
A couple of kids at the club had fun filling a drink tray with the hailstones and giving all assembled a closeup. The roof sounded like handgreanades going off, not sure if anyone has gone up to check it out yet.
To round things off, I started the drive home and copped another hailstorm half way home. Not pleasant.
I’m always a bit toey around hailstorms since I goy caught in the Sydney hailstorm I think about 1999. That was a doozy.
that sounds about right, the camry looked like an egg carton.
fortunately it was part of the package and comcar promptly gave me a new one.
I was driving around in a BMW that looked it had been hit by a thousand tiny hammers.
Yes Jack, it was April 1999. It remains in present day values the most expensive insurance disaster in Australian history, bigger than the Newcastle Earthquake and Cyclone Tracy.
Total losses were 2.3 billion, about 1.7 billion insured, which in today’s numbers would be over $3 billion.
The Eastern suburbs was a patchwork quilt of tarpaulins lashed to rooves for months afterwards. The ‘hail as big as canned hams’ is a David Letterman line from a storm in the US long ago. It was true in Sydney in April ’99. Wrath of God stuff. People walking around dazed, bleeding from head wounds. Carnage everywhere. Thank heavens I was in a pub having a beer at the time.