The figure of 4444 people reporting abuse at the hands of Catholic clerics between 1980 and 2015 has seemed staggering to some. I was surprised that people were so shocked.
It is important to note the figure only represents those who have come forward and reported their abuse to some 90-odd Catholic authorities.
The rule of thumb for police investigators like those from VicPol’s Sano Task Force, is for every victim who comes forward, at least four will not.
There are those victims who cannot come forward, who are deceased, their lives often ended by suicide or in a storm of recklessness.
There are others who won’t ever come forward. They may a feel a victim’s shame at the abuse they have suffered. More often they appreciate coming forward will come at significant personal cost, the prospect of family dislocation, the ugly business of clerical sexual abuse meeting religious clannishness.
What we can safely say is the real numbers of victims is much higher than the 4444 figure. We will never know the exact extent of it but a speculative figure somewhere north of 20,000 victims of clerical paedophilia since World War II is not an unreasonable one.
Full column here.
The Guv’nor 9.33am previous
“No doubt you will give the same advice to Dismayed, Bella. Or not?
He gives what he gets & he ‘gets’ in spades.
It’s quite obvious you haven’t twigged to the fact that Dismayed the person, is attacked here no matter what he says & immediately after he says it & I’m fed up with it.
So, my answer is not, Mr Plod.
Have a nice day, Bella
Good to see ideology trumps fairness everytime Bella.
Bella, the cons here do not like reality. They do not want to understand their own “Innovation and Agility” rhetoric, They do not want things to change. They are born of fear, raised in fear and live in fear of change and of losing their own self entitled world. they care not of what happens to others. The cons believe those that are struggling do so by choice or because they are lazy. this says a lot about them. We see it on this blog constantly. The technology and innovation in energy supply and other industries is coming. Unfortunately Australia will again be late to the party and pay more to catch up. We already do. Until such time as investment moves to new technology the cons will continue to demonise the efforts of people smart enough and emotionally intelligent enough to want progress and who understand the opportunities and better outcomes for the planet and all of humanity . These same cons are related to those that thought Electricity was the devils work and the internal combustion energy was some sort of black magic pushed by their Devil. The same thing happened with the copper roll out in the early 1900’s the cons did not want it. They had already put in place the inland telegraph network up to Darwin why did we need this new thing some 30 years later? . The cons continue to hold this Nation back from technological advancement. It will only change when their portfolio managers advise them to move into the new technology. Their ideology depends on their refuting of any advancements. The abuse just keeps me Dismayed at the wilful ignorance of those people and highlights they have been raised to be selfish, ignorant and with a victim mentality. The only way they know how to combat facts and data or when being held to account is to lash out. We see their leader do it regularly. Bella until JTI runs me off I will stick around to put forward a different view to most on here. It is clear most on here have a very narrow area of information. this is their choice. Wilful ignorance.
As we have been advised ad nauseum renewables have had nothing to do with the recent energy issues in Sount Australia recently. So this decision by WA Labor seems odd.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/wa-labor-backtracks-on-renewable-energy/news-story/a49ce6f8be8b4aa65e14b29098d50df4
In the USA 1 in 5 girls are reported to have been sexually abused. Perhaps the statistics can be loosely transferred to Australia and that indicates the abuse by religious orders are only a small percentage of the perhaps millions of women abused when they were children. This of course if the following report is correct
http://www.victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics
Penny 03:37pm.
Glad you mentioned swimming coaches that featured in the spotlight there for a while.
That bought shivers up my wife’s back when once minding a young girl after school , now in the development stage of swimming. What a sad case these silent predators found ambushing these young vulnerable people being ” too ” scared to break out in the open notifying their case with authorities , then facing “extreme” questions to try and clear themselves .
I often thing of under developed countries where law an order is corrupt, kids have no backing to defend themselves , while the these evil creatures still roam free.
Hello South Australia we cant see you are you still there? Lovely big lump of Coal Scott Morrison brought into Parliament today, Mr Insider, to make a point of course.
Seems like Dismayed and the rest of the parochial self serving perpetually whinging South Australians have run out of power in more ways than one Henry. If they claim for one minute these outages are a national problem, and not one of their own making, I’m happy to pull the plug and say go fix your own mess you pack of mendicants.
I was gobsmacked to hear Weather-ill say with a whimper the government are going to take control of power supply in the State, so what the foxx have they being doing while the blackouts roll on? Who’s in charge? The fact these pure energy pontificates call on “dirty brown coal power” form Victoria is the icing on the melting cake.
The much vaunted submarine project now needs to plan for its own power supply. If they start stuffing up the supply of quality Coonawarra and Barossa reds I’m going to b really pissed off. For Pity’s sake South Australia, you need more energy.
SA is not running on kerosene like Queensland is . Your wilful ignorance proves you are not fit the world of today of tomorrow.
Indeed Lou its time they re-fired those Coal Power Stations that have been closed around Australia imho otherwise this country will be in lots of trouble. The fools have run the climate change circus for too long and we are now seeing the end result. Great little bit of theatre yesterday by Scott Morrison bringing a lump of Coal into Parliament.
You must have missed the National reporting that both Queensland and NSW are looking at rolling load shedding, Blackouts yesterday and today. they have virtually no renewables. You have just proven your need to attack me outweighs your ability to digest and understand facts. Queensland is using Kerosene for goodness sake to try and meet expected power demand. Wake up. It is no longer 1950.
You will have to switch to the fine wines from the South West Lou
Out of touch LotoD. You do realise it is not 1950. If you have 2 bottles of Grange you better drink it. The older ones are now probably balsamic vinegar.
http://reneweconomy.com.au/coal-reliant-nsw-faces-rolling-blackouts-as-accusations-fly-in-south-australia-40115/
Heaven help them if the lights go out in a day/nighter, Lou. Words like essential services will get bandied about.
The market price for dung is increasing daily in SA
To make the point NSW and Queensland running on coal and kerosene are also facing blackouts. Try harder you alternative facts are weak.
Qld is not facing load shedding.
The Guv, as long as the kero does not run out.
Looter Ian McDonald Whingeing about the loss of his Gold Pass. Interesting that Trumble keeps it for himself, wife and all PM’s though.
Methinks PM Malcolm Trumble will soon be getting a chance to use his Gold Pass BASSMAN with 7 consecutive negative Newspolls in a row, fast catching the hapless Abbott who scored 30 in a row! This is a BaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaD government! Trumble is full of P & W.
Turnbull does not use it, or intend to Bassy, nor, as far as I am aware does he draw a salary.
Give him a break. He gives a lot of money to philanthropic causes as well. Not all bad.
All other and future PMs and their wives will use it. Dnt you think they are paid enough to finance their own travel?Its a RORT…face it Bald.
Terrible from McDonald I thought he was better than that. I actually don’t have a problem with it for retired PM’s. Also Turnbull has viewed he won’t use it.
sfb McDonald don’t like it, he can get a better job….
None of them are better than that Razor & McDonald actually appears to believe he’s entitled to it, since $200k per annum is such a paltry salary.
So out of touch with regular Australians it’s shameful.
Regards, Bella.
A great article JTI with some interesting Vicpol stats, which I think are probably pretty accurate. There is no doubt that up until the mid to late 80’s there was a significant split in some Police forces in Australia between Catholics and Masons. I recall being transferred to a particular CIB in the late 80’s and a senior officer said to me ‘I didn’t know you were a mason’. I wasn’t but the inference said plenty. I also knew a group of then Senior Detectives would attend mass together every Sunday morning then head to the brekky creek for a steak straight afterwards. To be part of that group was a road to promotion. Whilst I was a catholic I had already started to be a doubter by then so it wasn’t my bag.
I think there are two factors at play in the story of police malfeasance with regard to investigating child sex crimes during most of the 20th century.
The first is a lack of training, knowledge and yes, competence in investigating these matters. There was no training available in how to deal with child witnesses and more importantly how to best get their evidence before a court. Also society was a lot more closed in those times regarding matters of sex and many officers would have felt very uncomfortable discussing in graphic detail the act of sodomy for example with a 10 or 12 year old boy or girl. Specialist juvenile aid bureaus were brand new in the 70’s and they dealt more with children committing crime than they did with sex offences. As in Denis Ryans matters all those types of jobs would have been handled at a local level. Those local detectives were not always equiped, competent enough or motivated to conduct those inquiries.
The second factor, which probably goes to motivation, no doubt has to do with the role the church, particularly the Catholic Church, played in some officer’s lives. At the time it would have been seen as a good thing to be an upstanding member of the church, to share a beer with the priest on a Friday night and arrange one of the constables to give father a lift home when he got too pissed. It was a way to promotion. You were solid. The trouble with all that arises when one combines it with the brainwashing that is part and parcel of the church. If anyone wants to scoff at that I put this to you. I bet if you are a catholic and haven’t attended mass for years the moment you have to go for some reason you will still know what to say and what to do without thinking about it. That’s because the rituals of the church are embedded in your mind from a very early age. Catholics are taught from day one the local priest isn’t god but he isn’t far bloody off so mind your p’s and q’s. This lead to people making poor decisions because of the place priests and the church played in their lives. This is not an excuse for what they did it’s just my theory on why some, probably those weaker in character, did what they did.
Police today should not and cannot cover the sins of the past. What they can do is to make sure systems are in place so it can never happen again, whether it’s the church, the local footy club or whatever organisation is involved. Officers like Dinny Ryan should be regarded as heros and their stories taught to all police. Anyway that’s my longest post ever and I hope you publish it so I can give some of our fellow bloggers my perspective on this terrible stain on what is an honourable profession.
You’re right, Razor – I was a bit annoyed to see over the wall a comment to the effect that all coppers are bad eggs and no good in this area.
A friend recently finished a trial placement as a detective (she’s back in uniform now, though hoping for a permanent transfer) and knocked over a real grub, convicted on multiple charges. She sent me a copy of the letter of commendation the prosecutor sent to her boss after the trial and it looks like she’s got a career cut out for her in that area. Really top work.
Engaging interview with retired cop and crime author Duncan McNab (whom Jack probably knows) by Dickie Fidler who as usual, is without peer. Once again on NSW police corruption and the police gangs that used to
Terrorise, beat up and imprison the camp when on the beat.
Blind eye turned to blatant obvious murders by the cops. Fascinating and a must listen as Bob Askin (of “run the bastards over fame”) caught at an illegal gambling den with his police commissioner. Corruption everywhere. Rings a bell.
A camp mate of mine was murdered in 1970. His body found at Museum Station. Murderer never found. I heard his name over the radio as I was driving. What a shock! A quiet lovely guy who would never hurt anybody. The cops used to get their young good looking constables in civvies to approach the camp in toilets and then set upon them. Beat them to a pulp and then arrest them. That was ‘good policing’ then.
http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-duncan-mcnab/8230886
Question time is a wank and should be abolished. At the least, how crazy is it those on the government side asking themselves questions to which they already know the answer. I know they don’t know what one hand is doing from the other but this is bloody crazy. Only Oppositions should be allowed to ask questions if any questions are to be asked at all.
Last blog was one of the best we have had. 2 on crime is cream….Jack’s area of speciality.
McNab! Now there’s a good name for a cop.
Ex cop, now. Hell of a crime writer. Good bloke.
There’s a copper called Basham working in NE Victoria somewhere – maybe Wangaratta? Every time the name pops up in the paper it amuses me no end.
Used to be a grave digger in Nowra called Lazarus
Agree Bassy, Fidler is one of the greats. I love listening to his interviews on long drives.
He really does his research Dickie. Another great interviewer probably not known to many because he is in the wee hours is Rod Quinn. I used to listen to all of these guys driving home from gigs at 3am
Does Quinn have any podcasts Bassy?
http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/overnights/john-waters-remembers/8242132
http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/overnights/the-azaria-chamberlain-case/8183052
Bella made a point about it not just being sexual abuse but other forms of abuse as well.
i think that is true and my own belief was that some of the nuns and brothers led pretty awful lives, i just didn’t think that gave them a good enough excuse to take it out on some kid.
At St Pat’s in Ballarat a Christian Bros outfit, it became clear there was a link between physical and sexual abuse. Ted Dowlan used physical violence as a grooming technique, basically beating the hell out of kids and when they cried, Dowlan would comfort them and then the sexual abuse began. The violence perpetrated on the students there was appalling and it was a very short step to sexual abuse.
It appears different seminaries, orders and other catholic organisations had different levels of offending. Not sure if a particular order attracted a particular type of person or they were ‘converted’ whilst there. It’s a chicken and egg argument I suppose. Is sexual behaviour learned? Particularly in young adults. Is it nature or nurture? These questions are at the core of the problem. I know there has been lots of back and forth about celibacy and the role it played in this horrific mess. My thoughts are, and I have no evidence to base this on, that it may have played a part with a small amount of individuals but I do not see it as the easy fix some in the church do. Being sexually attracted to children has nothing to do with celibacy it is how you get your kicks and that isn’t normal. Those priests and brothers who indulged in this vile behaviour would have had ample opportunity to sate their sexual arousal amongst willing parishioners and if need be brothels. They got their satisfaction from children and whether their joining the church allowed these already developed or latent predelictions to be unleashed or their exposure to this perverted behaviour during training and their early church lives allowed it to develop is the real question.
Don’t think it needs to over-intellectualised, Razor. What you say there is right. They preyed on kids because the could and believed they would get away with it.
Probably right mate but I find it all so disappointing. Spent a large part of my childhood revering these people and to have this revealed cuts a bit. My thoughts of clergy being bad were about our local priest having a ‘secretary’ and her two young boys, had out of wedlock, looked remarkably similar to said priest. God if only I knew he was a veritable angel compared to many of the others.
Interesting interview on Fox News tonight by David Speers with Father Paul Collins. I don’t have a link but worth the watch if you haven’t seen it.
He makes the point the “rules” around priesthood only go back several hundred years, and the rule of order is determined by the majority of Catholic Bishops, not exactly an endearing bunch of self serving hypocrites.
As for straying, the school I went to was in by American Jesuits. They had no interest (physical) in the boys, but there was certainly plenty of action between the seminary and the nunnery just across the road. This is evidenced by three couples of said institutions leaving their Orders and getting married, including my mentor priest who was want to meet out corporal punishment as a first strike policy.
Lou,
I know what you mean. We had an old nun who taught music who used the power and awe philosophy at every opportunity. As someone with not a single musical bone in their body I was often the recipient of her tender ministrations.
My wife has any number of stories re abuse by nuns in primary school, belted for looking sideways etc. Seems like Luther had something going for him. Mind you, my mum had similar stories from public school in the 30’s
How, for Gods sake, can the CEO of Australia Post be worth $5.6million/year?. This is ludicrous.
Australia Post is going broke as the need for postal services wanes and this man has this salary? Jesus.
Disgraceful , Ahmed Fahour should be ashamed of himself for having the gall to even think he’s worth anywhere near this outrageous salary. Sack him I say and redo the salary. Maybe $250k a year would be tops if AP was in the black!
I’d do it for half that–and improve service.
You’re hired Dwight, welcome aboard Australia Post!
Not even worth half that Dwight. Maybe$500k tops?
Labor appointment Yvonne.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Fahour
Some of us here and people like Michael West in the media and others have been raising the issue of Executive pay for years only to be attacked as jealous or of wanting to play the politics of envy or class warfare. Now you seem to want jump on board? Strange? Woodside CEO Coleman sacked 1100 plus 500 contractors and was a given a $2 million bonus back in 2015. I highlighted it and was as above accused of being a class warrior.