Much has been made of the Turnbull government’s successes in the last week of sitting in the federal parliament. Malcolm Turnbull is crowing but there is a broad understanding the hot ticket item, the ABCC legislation which passed through the Senate earlier this week, has been rendered a dud and that Derryn Hinch was played by the CFMEU to cough up concessions.
While being tricked by the CFMEU’s office bearers is hardly something anyone would want to put on their political resumes, Hinch would not see it that way. He may have his own explanation for it. I have no doubt he could spout some rationalisation at the drop of a hat. That is a talent he undoubtedly possesses.
More generally, I’d suggest voters should be leery of people like Hinch becoming representative politicians. Perhaps we should adopt a tacit rule that wherever a political party appears with the word ‘justice’ in it, that party is not worth the ballot paper it is written on. Where it appears featuring the name of a media personality before the word ‘justice’ you can put the house (or indeed the Senate) on it being a self-serving exercise in the sort of ‘look at me’ politics we have come to know and despise in this country.
Full column here:
Last blog – darren – re s18C – “The fear mongers have got you all stirred up on this TBLS. I really recommend that you talk to people like me who know what we are talking about on this subject and are – although you may not believe it – trying to steer you straight on it.
OK darren. I’ll try not to act too stirred up but I should point out that fear mongers have nothing to do with my views on the subject. I know it’s a totally mysterious process to those on the left, this business of making up one’s own mind without following the proper Politburo-approved line, but some of us did actually form views on it before the latest hullabaloo.
Many, many moons ago I reproduced on Jack’s blog a large part of a letter I wrote to Phillip Adams sometime shortly before the enactment of the law in 1994, asking him to examine on Late Night Live the process by which governments were seeking to fill the space once occupied by the churches in setting societal standards and morals and gently mocking those who are scared witless by the horror of people holding views contrary to those held by what some now call “progressives”.
Good old Phillip, to my surprise, was one of those lefties (of which I was one at the time) who opposed the proposed law because he was one of that now all-but-extinct breed of socialists who actually had the intelligence and courage to make argument in the marketplace of ideas. Not one of those who out-sourced their courage and integrity to Commissars, politicians, lawyers and judges because they lack confidence in their intellect and fear the possibility of defeat in argument.
You forgot to blame the gay left wing muslim hipster barrista that makes your lukewarm herbal tea each morning. You appear to be creating imaginary enemies in the shadows wherever you do not like the outcomes. You are the exact person the trumps, hansons and other divisive groups are feeding with false rhetoric and false pandering. Events may not have transpired as you had wished but consider not closing your mind off and seeking solace in the paranoid world that these charlatans want you in so they can continue to easily manipulate your projected insecurities. Get a FN grip man.
Maybe you should loosen yours, dismayed?
And up pops “one of those who out-sourced their courage and integrity to Commissars, politicians, lawyers and judges because they lack confidence in their intellect and fear the possibility of defeat in argument”.
So do you support the laws of the country or just the ones that suit your position on the day? You are starting to sound a lot like Malcolm “empirical” Roberts. There is no argument. You are just wrong. You are getting more paranoid by the comment.
Mm-hm.
Nah, TBLS, we keep going over this point again and again.. The law is the law. Trained professional experts can tell you what the law is. And I have tried – repeatedly – to inform people here about what the law on this is. The law is not subject to your opinion. It will not change because of your opinion.
The problem here is you are relying on your opinion of what the law is on this and how it works. Thats like relying on your opinion of how to treat cancer. And your opinion is being influenced by people who haven’t a clue about what the law is and have a vested interest in misleading non experts like you. Thats why I see it as pretty much my duty to keep speaking out on this stuff and correcting the amateur – and wrong – views on this subject. Here’s a small tip. A guy like andrew bolt notably got the law wrong. He is now mightily pissed off about how badly he was shown up by that. Don’t rely on his opinion – in any way – on this subject. He is – and always has been – wrong about this. All his right wing mates – including writers on the australian – are also wrong on this. And always have been,
As I said, I don’t have a particular political bone to push on this. The law allows a lot more than this people – and you – think it does. But the law doesn’t allow the gross misconduct that some people in the community want to unleash.
Bottom line: trust the pros. Don’t trust the cons. Think about who is giving you your information on this and why.
Ps Phillip Adams was not – and never has been – a “leftie”. He is a luvvy liberal who is useful for right wingers to trot our as an example of a ‘tame” left winger. He is also a bit of a dill IMO.
Darren the law can be changed and has been through history when it has been proven to be wrong.
In your opinion, both legally and, more importantly in your case, philosophically, there is nothing wrong with it.
Others see it differently
it’s always good to have the pro back on the job
but wasn’t phillip adams a member of the communist party in his youth and of Labor for many years afterwards.
labor insiders always seemed to think he was on the team.
He’s a lefty par excellence. And no dill.
I think the Oz keeps him on the demonstrate ‘balance’.
One better than the ABC
Hi jack, I used to read Adams before the internet and I couldn’t believe the tosh he was writing. Then I heard his radio show and realised he was just there to make the blue rinse ladies feel safe. You know, like to convince them that wolves don’t bite. Adams was the acceptable face of “the left”. But he is just a blue rinse liberal. Always has been. And the voice of the real left has been shut out of the public debate for decades. People mistake the feminists and the pro multiculturalists as “the left” but that’s not my version of the left. Never has been. For me the left is what Yu might call industrial greenery. And work – – in the sense of working for others because you have to feed yourself – is something that we should aim to abolish. It’s a silly Protestant idea akin to slavery.
“Trained professional experts can tell you what the law is. And I have tried – repeatedly – to inform people here about what the law on this is.”
darren, you have been caught out so many times wrong – plain, demonstrably wrong – on matters of law you will never convince me you even possess a law degree, let alone the encyclopaedic legal knowledge to which you lay claim. You are someone whose legal (and other) knowledge appears available to anyone who can read Wikipedia and re-hash articles with the flimsy credibility that comes with wordiness.
“Don’t trust the cons. Think about who is giving you your information on this and why.”
Nobody is giving me my information on this; I can read the law and I can read judgements. My brief foray into a law degree many years ago got me a distinction in statutory interpretation and I utilised a practical knowledge of law for years in border protection. It sometimes astounds lawyers (and those pretending to be lawyers) that those without a law degree can comprehend what the law means, but many of us can. And our opinions surprisingly often tally with real lawyers as opposed to those who make a living in the fantasy realm of human rights (or just in plain fantasy).
I don’t doubt that you did well during your foray into the law, but the fact that it was both brief and coloured by your preconceptions is evident by your apparent belief that the thousand-year-old jurisprudence of human rights is some kind of recent PC fad, and your steadfast refusal to understand what the AHRC is empowered to do in relation to 18C cases. Which is very little, but all of it good.
You’ve got a beef with with that particular legislation; fine, rip into it. But the way you’re going about it is like burning down your own house to kill a mouse.
BTW, I doubt that someone who is called a “nigger” or a “kike” would invoke 18C because they “lack confidence in their intellect and fear the possibility of defeat in argument”.
the thousand year old jurisprudence on human rights is something to value,
the sixty or so year prevalence of Human Rights Acts and Commissions has bugger all to do with human rights.
I believe a case of mistaken identity. Ironic given the leftard mantra is the politics of identity.
Nah told, give one example of me being wrong on the law here. And there you go again . You can form an opinion on the law? No you can’t. No more than you can beat Gary Ablett junior one on one with a football. Again, professional versus amateur. The problem here is you have the arrogance of ignorance. As I said, you’re getting a professional opinion here, from a highly experienced professional who, unlike you, actually has studied this subject and maintained a deep interest in it since university. You probably haven’t even read the decision in the bolt (or the prior) case. So don’t kid yourself. We both know you don’t know what you’re talking about on this. And by the way, I don’t know what you do for a quid but – unlike you – I’m willing to concede you know more about whatever it is you do. Weirdly, I get accused of all sorts of nonsense on this stuff despite being the reasonable one.
You were very iffy on the concept of when two or more persons form a common purpose under the criminal law.
Dont remember that Razor, can you be a bit more specific. Was I just uncertain of it or wrong? If I was wrong, how was I wrong.
what, you think you are the Gary Ablett of the law?
now that is a good one, especially as i am still waiting for my update on the law of defamation and how it is the same as feeling offended.
it just isn’t true that an understanding of and knowledge of the law is restricted to those who have completed a degree and been admitted to practice.
There are countless numbers of people out there who know a lot about the law, especially those who have had the job of enforcing it, or reporting on it, or avoiding it for that matter.
of course there are plenty who don’t understand the law that well too, and quite a few of them do have the degree and are practicing lawyers.
HK jack, yeah, bush lawyers would account for probably the majority of the problems I get called in to fix. Bush lawyers are what keeps the legal profession going. The managing director or CEO who THINKS he knows what the law is (and its always a he) but doesnt is probably the biggest money spinner there is.
As for others, no. No journalist knows what the details of the law are. They dont have time and they have no incentive to know those details. At best a journo might read a case here and there. But to understand those cases you have to know all the OTHER lines of cases. No journo does that because there is no reason to. I have been involved in a number of reasonably high profile cases (including 3 years on Bell Group) and I can absolutely confirm that when things get complicated Journos go missing in action. Ive had a few good laughs at the mangled facts and conclusions published in relation to cases in quite a few news publications.
And then you push the line that absolute amateurs can do this? No. Thats dangerously wrong. Yesterday I won a summary judgment defence against an unrepresented plaintiff in the supreme court here. His case was utter crap. It is still going of course because we are defending that claim. But that little escapade just cost him about $30k or so. So, since he was chasing $400k on that bit of his case he had a very strong incentive to get it right. But he didnt. And you think some keyboard warrior – with no incentive to read, study, or check anything – has a clue on the law? Im having arguments here with people that I KNOW havent even read the Bolt judgment but still come across as if they are Horace Rumpole. No, the evidence is ALL against you.
ps maybe not Abblett but I was trying to make a point of the breathtaking arrogance of some of these comments on the law. Ridiculous stuff.
darren, there has always been work in the profession fixing up botched work, but it isn’t just bush lawyers who make a mess, it is lawyers too.
still, it’s nice low hanging fruit, as is litigating against an unrepresented opponent, it’s a bit like Gary Ablett getting 40 touches playing in the twos.
i have met a couple of legal reporters who know a lot more than most lawyers, and quite a few government officials and company officers of whom that is true as well.
There is a bloke called Michael McHugh who doesn’t have a law degree and he seems to have eked out a pretty solid career, not as distinguished as your own of course.
HK jack, dont be silly. McHugh did the article clerks program to qualify as a lawyer. You know that. That takes longer to study and qualify for than getting a degree. Youd probably also know that it is extremely rare to quaulify that way and now probably non-existent. Youre talking about a lawyer who qualified in an era when it was possible for someone with 3 years practising experience to become a partner of a major firm. Things are decidedly more complex now. But to suggest that McHugh didnt have to study – and damned hard – to qualify as a lawyer, and then to become a High Court justice is just wrong.
I have met lots of non lawyers, including in high up places. Never met one who could, say, draft a pleading (a pretty basic step) or who would have known the DETAILED law on anything. You might be impressed by show ponies but I think if these people were put to the test they would be shown to be badly wanting.
As an expert can you tell me if it is true that Cher once worked pro bono?
And as i’m maturing I resisted the temptation to go for any pro boner gags. It was quite an effort I can assure.
Yes.
Henry Blofeld 3:13PM
My goodness, how you underestimate the canny Mr Turnbull. His cunning nuancing and Machiavellian tactics are not easily seen by the rabid Abbott worshippers. All is not as it seems Henry, he is leading the hapless Abbott into a diabolical trap. Again!
If Mr Turnbull had one nothing before and does nothing else in his life the nation owes him a great debt of gratitude for toppling the parvenu Abbott. To not feel embarrassed for that loonie in lycra on wakening every morning is a great weight off the national psyche. Just Credlin’s discombobulation and dummy spitting has been worth the price of admission alone.
For mine, I predict the splendid Mr Hinch will reward the nation with a plethora of amusing antics in the coming years.
Best wishes.
I think I do detect a faint hint of liking by you for one T. Abbott Mr Baptiste and we may see a lot more of this young fellow in 2017 as am sure he wont want to sit up the backbench all by his lonesome. 2017 I predict will be a “balls to the wind ” year for our Tony. As for Malcolm what can one say, the Newspolls are already counting him out!
You have to give Turnbull credit though.
He has managed to pass a useless piece of legislation and in his imagination turn it into a major victory.
Good on you mate.
If I’m not too late could you do me a favour mate?
If you happen to see Ms Julia Jabour from Hobart’s Institute for Marine and Antarctic Studies down at Constitution, would you be so kind as to ever so cleverly just push her into the drink for me. This pro-whaling idiot supports grenade tipped harpooning by the Japanese & therefore wants Sea Shepherd ships banned from Hobart & other Australian ports because WE are the “aggressive and dangerous” ones.
Just shows how little she knows about the Southern Ocean, the entire Antarctic marine system and the truth about who have been the target of countless ramming incidents on the high seas, the Ady Gil being one historical case in point. My guess is she was very well compensated because Japan have been increasingly nervous about our new faster ship.
Hope you enjoyed the tour Yvonne.
Regards, Bella
Turnbull & co shonks were totally desperate to get anything through by that point, no matter the cost of their naked political gamesmanship. People on the street wouldn’t know what those two pieces of legislation are but as is the Libs MO, taxpayers only know it won’t help them a zot. All of it coming at the taxpayer for the low, low price of a suddenly available $160M. Much of it, $100M for ‘Landcare’!? Isn’t this the Libs??
I’ve never known the three stooges to carry on like true nutjobs for the media but I s’pose it’s a political necessity, covering up for their incompetence & all.
LLong Jack.
Having a little drama around here and it is an object lesson in duck shoving and obfuscation.
Last Sunday a resident noticed a lovely little creek at the back of her property had turned white.
She called the Council who said it was EPA’s problem. She called the EPA who said it was the Council’s problem. She called the council again.
Anyhow, Hazmat arrived and there are a couple of stories. They looked and left or they looked and put two tanker loads of water down the creek. They are not saying.
On Mon or Tues a couple of people from the council rolled up and inspected the creek from the road. They could not possibly go into the property because that would be trespassing. Knocking on the door and asking permission was beyond them.
Come Wed and the local lady who does Streamwatch ( a volunteer organisation attached to the Australia Museum tasked with regularly testing the creeks) got a call saying the creek was white.
Enter now a 71 and a 67 year old woman. They followed the creek upstream, which was not easy, and located the storm water drain from which the stuff came. A few irate phone calls to people and two members of council arrived and quickly tracked down a local soap manufacturer who admitted liability. No Material Safety Data Sheet.
All good so far.
And then nothing happened. There were dead eels and crayfish all over the place and the creek stank like used dishwater.
There is an accessible part of the creek and then some falls. Below the falls, which is difficult to get to, there was white scum everywhere.
Come Thursday nothing happened. According to the EPA Council had it in hand.
I started up an entry on the local face book page with pictures and all hell broke loose. I did not realize how many people had a deep affection for that creek. The Streamwatch guys started a petition. Council put a boom across the top of the falls but their total lack of understanding of the creek and area meant that they could not get down below the falls. Meanwhile the stuff had now entered the national park downstream.
The local MP who was the Minister of the Environment was put into the loop as was the local press.
Council was going to meet up with the EPA next week.
The pressure on Council was mounting.
Today at around 4:00 pm Friday, 3 Hazmat trucks, the local fire brigade and two council members (minus their testing equipment) converged on the accessible part of the creek and did a bit of clean up and are going to put more booms in – above the falls. ( After many phone calls to Hazmat, action was achieved by dialling 000 and reporting that the spill had not been cleaned up)
What about downstream of the falls? Not too sure that that will happen – too hard.
Council will meet with the EPA tomorrow and we all wait with baited breath as to what will happen.
Meanwhile the residents have put out fresh water containers for the birds and animals.
Long but a good one, JS. Have there been any media reports on this?
Not yet – Manly Daily has been involved
It would seem that giving these guys the soft soap doesn’t work; only the power of social media.
I was amazed at the response to the Facebook entry. We have a community based one. It was an object lesson in the power pf modern media.
Hazmat was asked if they had put 2 tanker loads of water down the creek. Nope! Then a person puts an entry on saying there was a fire truck in her street for hours pumping water down the drain. It was a standard fire truck. It has become obvious that they do not talk to one another.
We got 490 entries on the petition in less 6 hours.
National Park contaminated huh? certain soap company is in deep doo doo
Not too sure Smoke.
There are a lot of Chinese whispers going around.
If it is true that said manufacturer notified the NSW Fire Service when it happened and then Fire service flushed it down the creek without any containment because it was water soluble, I have no idea who is liable. It might all boil down to the body that gave permission to flush. Dunno!
The other rumour is that said fire service’s initial response was there was not a problem.
All of this will be verified slowly over a period of time.
Northern Beaches Council “owns” this problem. From their performance on this one, if they are in charge of any future life threating incident, I just do not want to be around.
not to be too morbid AS, but by the sound of this, you would not be around…..for long.
hopeless mob…well paid tho’
JackSprat, I’m in the area and hadn’t heard any of this, can’t find reference in the MD. what’s the name of the creek, and which catchment or lagoon does it flow into, I’m very interested.
As a further aside, morons are spreading. The NSW Transport brainwave (actually Premier Baird’s) for a rapid bus system from the Northern Beaches to the city has turned into a brain fart. In their wisdom the planners were going to fully block off the main access road to several suburbs until the public found voice. A partial backdown so far, but Baird is losing a lot of skin right now.
Have a look at the Terrey Hills Facebook. If you were not looking at that particular Facebook page I doubt if you would not know that it was happening.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/terreyhillscp/
It’s a gossipy local sort of thing and you have to go a fair way down, past the snake on the veranda, to get the full picture.
To my knowledge there has been no communications outwards from Hazmat of the Council. I can find no hits on the web except for the petition.
Creek is Neverfail – starts in Terrey Hills and wanders down through the national park and ends up in Cowan Waters,
The EPA is now involved and the clean up has started,
The Manly Daily came down, took pictures, interviewed the Streamwatch ladies and then nothing.
Have you seen the plans for Frenchs Forest at Forestway ?http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/manly-daily/high-rise-new-pool-and-school-move-plans-revealed-for-frenchs-forest/news-story/6d4d9ba3cbc99e4ef6bdb2c6be3eb579
Of course no transport worth a damn with all those extra people and only 200 units will be “affordable” housing for the new hospital staff etc
Thanks JackSprat, now I’ve got it.
Tracy, this is classic Monty Python. You get a school for a pool, a pool for a school, a stool for a fool, and none of this will happen for at least two years after the hospital is finished because the school must continue operating in the meantime! Oh and half of one street becomes medium density, but not on the other side of the same street.
I can’t wait to see all the hospital workers sleeping in their cars, or tents out the back of the carpark. This is community planning in action.
Don’t know if you’re taking comments or not Jack, since I can see some. All I want to say is I’s like to have seen him sent to Christmas Island and then home in chains.
Shag me silly Mr Insider, Hinch is Hinch, but Lib/NatSenator James McGrath buys a book on how to be a Minister and has the hide to charge it to we taxpayers! What a dill , what a waste of space and what a waste of taxpayers money is McGrath!
http://tinyurl.com/zm5z62x
Never has the nickname ‘Human Headline’ been more apt. Doesn’t care who gets in the way of one.
To think he was apparently once a serious journalist way back in the early Chalcolithic.
Had to look Chalcothic up…….couldn’t you have used Neolithic for dumb bastards like me Rhys 😏
I knew what it was, Razor as i’m a Roman Chalcothic.
It’s possible the CFMEU have more compelling powers of persuasion than Malcolm and co.
And whilst Malcolm may spruik up his “achievements”, as does Nikki Savva, it would seem that old political powerhouse, John Hewson is underwhelmed.
Milton – Surely you jest. John Hewson an “old political powerhouse” ??
Try powermouse, and even then you’d be pushing it.
Yes, Carl it was tongue in cheek. He is that bad smell that never seems to go away.
Ive worked with john hewson. He is a lovely man.
darren, Hewson tried his hand at baking birthday cakes as I recall, but he messed up the ingredients.
Keating pinged him with his “ferel abacus” quip. It was a beauty.
True, Carl, but he is far more impressive in person than his public image would suggest. Both sides of politics have maligned him and, unfortunately, a fair bit of that has stuck.
Darren, I think a lot of pollies are decent, smart and engaging people away from the camera and their job. I’d bet Abbott is a top bloke outside of his ‘public persona’.
Basically, until we get someone with the leadership and political skills to form a working majority and defeat the trend towards the minor parties we are going to have a parliament that produces platypus legislation. The honourable members of this parliament might as well all go home and stop wasting their time and our money until the next election.
On the bright side eventually someone will start coming up with policies that address these issues. But the current crop of honourable members are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
ps yes, I was using the word “honourable” facetiously.
Ricky Muir might’ve been partly capable of it, given enough time to overcome his limitations.
It’s not the minor parties I object to either, it’s that they’re almost always full of idiots, jobsworths, or the utterly self-serving, plus the insane, the crazed ideologue, or the crooks.
Ricky Muir was impressive. A bloke with no political knowledge who turned into a conscientious senator willing to do the hard thinking. Exactly the sort of person you’d want in parliament. Its a bit of an indictment of the system that a bloke like that was accidentally elected and then not reelected.
Agree. I was disappointed that he didn’t get back in. I see he’s bought the sawmill that he used to work in.
I have to agree. There are very few standouts.
Agree Darren. What a fiasco
Couldn’t agree more but because of the way the preselection game is played are either of the majors ever likely to find someone? Let’s get rid of the Senate go unicameral, 5year terms and see what happens then. It couldn’t be worse than it is now.
Majority governments with untramelled power and little countervailing power from an Upper House? It could be far worse.
Dunno about that Rhys. I reckon NSW would be far better off without the upper house. This is a good lesson for anybody wanting to recommend the Hare-Clark System for the lower house.
I’m thinking more of the Queensland experience. Particularly what I’ve heard of the Joh years.
Or imagine Robin Askin (or even Bob Carr) with no countervailing Upper House.
I expect Proportional Representation would work better if we had a true multi-party system in this country, and not just 2.5 big parties, whatever the Greens are, and a farrago of disaffected nutters.
I don’t think I’ll really be a fan of it for the Lower Houses any time soon.
darren – ” …. a parliament that produces platypus legislation.”
I think the analogy may be misplaced darren. Platypi may seem to be hodgepodge, but they are unique, adaptable and streamlined.
A creature that Stephen Jay Gould once described as apparently designed by a committee – a witty dig at creationists.
What is platypus legislation.
I have heard of “Koalas” in companies – useless people but “a protected species” because of their relationship with the hierarchy.
Hinch has always been about Hinch, Mr Insider, and becoming a Senator has not changed that. No wonder the populace is fed up with our politicians as they hog the “feed trough” like starving pigs! The hardworking Aussie taxpayer has a lot to complain about. Parliament sitting days are sparse and the results we get minimal. High wages not appropriate to skill are being paid by the taxpayer. Hinch now in his 70’s has found a nice little “earner” to see him out into retirement. He’s not a bad man, just someone who loves to see his name in the media. As for Turnbull we despair. What a fruitcake we have as PM, not a single idea of what to do himself as he try’s to implement ex ousted PM Tony Abbotts agenda. Shameful for someone who displaced an elected PM and then went on to do nothing!
Never been much of a Hinch man myself. Its always been about him. Could you imagine trying to have a long lunch with him? You’d be looking to get out the door within half an hour even if the prick was paying!
MESSAGE FOR ALL: I see the Aus has taken this article off comments and I should too. Apologies and feel free to chat off topic on assorted apocrypha and sundry trivia. If I am unable to turn comments off on this item, I’ll have to delete the entry and comments will come through on older ones. Again apologies.